First hour meeting
Oct 08 19:01:22 <Zapata> ok ;-)@@ Oct 08 19:01:30 <Zapata> so... Oct 08 19:01:44 <Zapata> let's wait 10 minutes or so, but use this time to form an agenda Oct 08 19:02:01 <Zapata> Points I'd like to discuss are: Oct 08 19:02:04 <ryan> i would like to put scheduling on the agenda Oct 08 19:02:16 <kwadronaut> and dividee some tasks: summary logs moderating translating? Oct 08 19:02:22 <Zapata> * General progress Oct 08 19:02:34 <Zapata> * Moving the wiki pages to docs.indy Oct 08 19:02:47 <Zapata> * Deadlines Oct 08 19:02:59 <Zapata> I take it, ryan, that scheduling = deadlines ? Oct 08 19:03:24 <Zapata> For the rest there would be the standard items: Oct 08 19:03:29 <ryan> yeah Oct 08 19:03:30 <Zapata> * Reports on surveys Oct 08 19:03:30 <ryan> brb Oct 08 19:03:40 <Zapata> * new CMSes to be surveyed Oct 08 19:04:30 <txopi> hi Oct 08 19:06:04 <Zapata> so... Oct 08 19:06:08 <Zapata> agenda so far: Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * General progress Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * Moving the wiki pages to docs.indy Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * Deadlines / scheduling Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * Reports on surveys Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * New CMSes to be surveyed Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * Divide tasks: Summary / logs / translations Oct 08 19:06:17 <Zapata> * Schedule a next meeting Oct 08 19:09:04 --- Zapata has changed the topic to: CMS meeting NOW in #cms | Please Read: http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/Notes | http://cats.revolt.org/cats-vii/indymedia/ | http://techmeet.sarava.org/English/CMSProposal Oct 08 19:10:26 <kwadronaut> i'd say start with dividing tasks ;-) any volunteers for logging this meeting, anonimyzing it and posting? Oct 08 19:10:41 <hyama> i sure will log Oct 08 19:11:22 <Zapata> I'll log and post them Oct 08 19:11:29 <Zapata> I'll moderate if that's fine with everybody... Oct 08 19:11:40 <Zapata> who wants to do summary and translations? Oct 08 19:11:40 <hyama> please do Oct 08 19:11:59 <hyama> i can help with some italian Oct 08 19:12:07 <Zapata> ok, great... Oct 08 19:12:07 <kwadronaut> well, anyone needs translations during the meeting? Oct 08 19:12:17 <Zapata> well... Oct 08 19:12:26 <Zapata> I doubt it... but... perhaps people can translate the summary? Oct 08 19:12:49 <txopi> i can translate the summary to spanish Oct 08 19:12:51 <hyama> 2nd url in the topic you mean? Oct 08 19:13:16 <Zapata> well, we have a bunch of pages with information Oct 08 19:13:26 <Zapata> but after every meeting we try to make a summary... Oct 08 19:13:40 <Zapata> and it would be nice if this one in particular is translated I'd say... Oct 08 19:13:51 <hyama> ok i thought you mneant that by summary not the postmeeting summary Oct 08 19:14:26 <Zapata> so... Oct 08 19:14:28 <Zapata> shall we start? Oct 08 19:14:40 <Clopy> yes Oct 08 19:14:55 <txopi> i can translate the summary of this meeting Oct 08 19:14:59 <hyama> i have a digression for later Oct 08 19:15:06 <txopi> not all the contents of the wiki Oct 08 19:15:15 <txopi> no time for so much work :-/ Oct 08 19:15:19 <Zapata> ;-) Oct 08 19:15:32 <Zapata> ok... so... Oct 08 19:15:49 <Zapata> the agenda: Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * General progress Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * Moving the wiki pages to docs.indy Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * Deadlines / scheduling Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * Reports on surveys Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * New CMSes to be surveyed Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * Who will make a summary??? Oct 08 19:15:51 <Zapata> * Schedule a next meeting Oct 08 19:16:20 <Zapata> I'd say, let's skip intros, unless people insist? Oct 08 19:16:29 <txopi> it's ok for me Oct 08 19:16:30 <Zapata> most people's intro's have been collected on a wiki page anyway... Oct 08 19:16:45 <Clopy> ok Oct 08 19:17:13 <Zapata> The first item is mine: "General progress" Oct 08 19:17:46 <Zapata> What I wanted to say is that I feel the project is not moving forward as fast as I would have hoped... Oct 08 19:18:14 <Zapata> I don't think any survey has been completed... Oct 08 19:18:22 <Zapata> ofcourse I'm self as much at fault as anyone else... Oct 08 19:18:49 <Zapata> and ofcourse we're all doing this besided a lot of other jobs and so on... Oct 08 19:19:18 <Zapata> but still, it would be good if we manage to increase the pace a bit and finish surveys etc... Oct 08 19:19:28 <Zapata> more on this in the 3rd item on deadlines and scheduling... Oct 08 19:19:32 <Zapata> <end> Oct 08 19:19:36 <Zapata> any comments on this? Oct 08 19:19:39 * Clopy raises hand Oct 08 19:19:45 <Zapata> go right ahad Oct 08 19:19:48 <Zapata> ahead even Oct 08 19:20:19 <Clopy> I think that in order to move more quickly we s hould have a more concrete process. Perhaps a deadline and a way to decide what we will do Oct 08 19:20:31 <Clopy> the first one is in the agenda Oct 08 19:20:41 <Clopy> the second, I am not aware of. Oct 08 19:20:41 <Clopy> end Oct 08 19:20:53 <Zapata> what do you mean with "a way to decide what we will do" ? Oct 08 19:21:12 <Clopy> I mean, we will collect all the surveys, and then? Oct 08 19:21:23 * txopi whants to talk Oct 08 19:21:42 <Zapata> and then we'll make a short list and then we'll look at those more closely, and then we choose one... Oct 08 19:21:45 <Clopy> do we form working group(s) to start working? do we push it through the network, etc... Oct 08 19:21:47 <Zapata> that's my idea of the process anyway Oct 08 19:21:48 <Clopy> end Oct 08 19:21:53 <Zapata> txopi Oct 08 19:21:55 <Clopy> oh ok then Oct 08 19:22:12 <txopi> i think we should set a deadline for the survey process Oct 08 19:22:19 <txopi> for example 2 more weeks Oct 08 19:22:25 <txopi> and advise in the mailing list Oct 08 19:22:41 <txopi> so, in two meetings we can start analizin the results Oct 08 19:22:43 <hyama> may i suggest we also survey some "economically free" cms-like commercial services and ways to integrate them into existing architectures so we dont have to rewrite everything from scratch? (possibly) Oct 08 19:22:45 <txopi> and continue the process Oct 08 19:22:49 <txopi> END. Oct 08 19:23:22 <Zapata> let's discuss deadlines in the deadlines agenda item Oct 08 19:23:49 <Zapata> and if you have cms-like commercial services you'd like to survey / have surveyed, why don't you propose them in the "new cmses to be surveyed" part? Oct 08 19:23:59 <hyama> perfect Oct 08 19:24:04 <Zapata> so... Oct 08 19:24:11 <Zapata> any more comments on the "general progress" item? Oct 08 19:24:36 <Zapata> 1... Oct 08 19:24:38 <Zapata> 2... Oct 08 19:24:41 <hyama> no :) Oct 08 19:24:44 <Zapata> 3! Oct 08 19:24:47 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:25:00 <Zapata> Moving the wiki pages to docs.indy Oct 08 19:25:03 <Zapata> another item of mine Oct 08 19:25:16 <Zapata> as people may know, some people, including gdm, have been working on getting docs.indy back online... Oct 08 19:25:46 <Zapata> at the moment it's hosted in someone's house, in case new problems surface... but pretty soon it'll be moved to a colocation facility Oct 08 19:26:04 <Zapata> I suspect docs.indy is stable enough to host our pages... Oct 08 19:26:14 <Zapata> and so I would propose moving the pages there Oct 08 19:26:33 <Zapata> and if we agree on this, then ofcourse I could use a hand in organizing the move... Oct 08 19:26:36 <Zapata> <end> Oct 08 19:26:40 <Zapata> comments? opinions? Oct 08 19:26:40 * ana puede hacer traduccion al castellano en tiempo real si alguien necesita Oct 08 19:26:43 * txopi raises Oct 08 19:26:47 <Zapata> txopi? Oct 08 19:27:12 <txopi> i think tha's a very good decision if we don't loose stability Oct 08 19:27:25 <txopi> because the wiki is a need for us in this stage Oct 08 19:27:28 <txopi> END. Oct 08 19:28:00 <Zapata> anyone else with opinions / comments on moving the wiki pages to docs.indy? Oct 08 19:28:22 <hyama> question: where is the wiki now Oct 08 19:28:34 <Zapata> right now the wiki is hosted on sarava.org Oct 08 19:28:34 * dannyp quickly introduces (I had thought the meeting was 1700utc) - dannyp, pittsburgh/washington DC, sysadmin/programmer (C, PHP, javascript) Oct 08 19:28:46 <hyama> ok its the one im looking at tnx Oct 08 19:29:05 <Zapata> dannyp: it's now 17:28 utc Oct 08 19:29:06 <-- arthur_natal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Oct 08 19:29:15 <Clopy> and maybe I can give you a hand once it's up. end. Oct 08 19:29:33 <dannyp> heh. or, I can't subtract Oct 08 19:29:40 <Zapata> does anyone object to moving the wiki pages to docs.indy? Oct 08 19:30:05 <ryan> hi Oct 08 19:30:06 <ryan> no Oct 08 19:30:36 <Zapata> so... let's say there is consensus on moving the wiki pages to docs.indy Oct 08 19:30:52 <Zapata> next agenda item: Deadlines / scheduling Oct 08 19:30:55 <Zapata> ryan ? Oct 08 19:32:09 <-- skep has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Oct 08 19:32:35 <Zapata> hmmm Oct 08 19:32:45 <Zapata> ryan doesn't seem to be near his keyboard... Oct 08 19:33:07 <hyama> i think he was just saying he doesnt object to moving the wiki Oct 08 19:33:12 <ryan> i am i am Oct 08 19:33:14 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:33:15 <Zapata> ryan Oct 08 19:33:17 <ryan> what Oct 08 19:33:22 <Zapata> can you introduce the scheduling / deadlines thing? Oct 08 19:33:23 <ana> move on :-) Oct 08 19:33:36 <ryan> oh Oct 08 19:33:46 <ryan> it would be nice to set some timelines/deadlines for this thing Oct 08 19:33:52 <ryan> so people who are doing work dont feel like its for nothing Oct 08 19:34:06 <ryan> i think we could set a deadline of entering second phase of evaluations by the end of Q4 Oct 08 19:34:28 <ana> Q4? can you explain please? Oct 08 19:34:47 <kwadronaut> 31 decembe Oct 08 19:34:48 <kwadronaut> r Oct 08 19:34:59 <kwadronaut> correct me if i'm wrong Oct 08 19:35:05 <ryan> yeah Oct 08 19:35:06 <ryan> end of the year Oct 08 19:35:11 * txopi raises Oct 08 19:35:15 <Zapata> txopi? Oct 08 19:35:17 <Zapata> erm Oct 08 19:35:19 * kwadronaut raises Oct 08 19:35:19 <ryan> q4 = fourth quarter = last 1/4 of the year Oct 08 19:35:20 <Zapata> is ryan finished? Oct 08 19:35:23 <ryan> end Oct 08 19:35:28 <Zapata> txopi! Oct 08 19:35:31 <txopi> witch is exactly the second phase of evaluations? Oct 08 19:35:32 <txopi> END. Oct 08 19:35:37 * Zapata queue: kwadronaut Oct 08 19:35:58 <kwadronaut> better to answer txopis question first, my remark is about the date Oct 08 19:36:00 <Zapata> the second phase would be the short list one Oct 08 19:36:03 <Zapata> like Oct 08 19:36:11 <Zapata> we're now doing reports on a number of CMSes Oct 08 19:36:23 <Zapata> based on that we pick a couple we'll examine more closely all together Oct 08 19:36:36 <Zapata> so... Oct 08 19:36:42 * txopi understands Oct 08 19:36:52 <Zapata> the idea for the deadline is that by the end of the year, we must have finished the reports Oct 08 19:37:01 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:37:04 <Zapata> kwadronaut? Oct 08 19:37:20 <kwadronaut> i'd like to put the date a bit earlier, i don't know if there are certain pros or cons to put it at a certain date? Oct 08 19:37:26 <kwadronaut> the deadline that is Oct 08 19:37:28 <kwadronaut> <end> Oct 08 19:37:42 <ryan> well Oct 08 19:37:54 <ryan> ok, lets put it early :D Oct 08 19:38:01 * ana agrees with kwadronaut Oct 08 19:38:03 <ryan> but lets be realistic Oct 08 19:38:06 * Clopy agrees also Oct 08 19:38:10 <ryan> which is that many of us are gonna have to get started Oct 08 19:38:16 <ryan> and do many evaluations (more than 1 or 2) Oct 08 19:38:22 * ana raises hand Oct 08 19:38:26 <ryan> because there arent that many people to do them Oct 08 19:38:28 <ryan> end Oct 08 19:38:30 <Zapata> ana Oct 08 19:38:45 <ana> i can see that many people have started their evaluations Oct 08 19:38:53 <ana> so ... is end of octuber too early? Oct 08 19:39:01 <Zapata> YES! Oct 08 19:39:03 <Zapata> ;-) Oct 08 19:39:10 <ana> ok then... Oct 08 19:39:15 <ana> end of nov for evaluations Oct 08 19:39:24 <ana> end of dec for shortlising Oct 08 19:39:26 <ryan> thats ok w/me Oct 08 19:39:26 <ana> <end> Oct 08 19:39:33 <Zapata> fine by me as well Oct 08 19:39:37 * dannyp twinkles Oct 08 19:39:43 * txopi agrees Oct 08 19:39:49 * ana looks up twinkle in dictionary Oct 08 19:39:51 <ryan> twinkles :( Oct 08 19:39:53 * Clopy agrees and raises hand Oct 08 19:40:04 <Zapata> txopi Oct 08 19:40:06 * kwadronaut agrees Oct 08 19:40:08 <Zapata> ernm Oct 08 19:40:10 <Zapata> clopy! Oct 08 19:40:15 <Zapata> go ahead, clopy Oct 08 19:40:15 <txopi> :D Oct 08 19:41:25 <Clopy> in the context of speeding up the evaluation process. I feel that the main "contestants" until now are drupal and plone. Do you think that ti is possible to ask from the ppl evaluating other cmss, to perhaps try to have even a short evaluation for the next meeting? Oct 08 19:41:51 <Clopy> cause I think that if it comes down to these two, or one or two more, we have our shortlist already. Just a thought. end Oct 08 19:41:51 <hyama> are any of those from the mambo codebase? Oct 08 19:42:02 <Clopy> yes and mambo I forgot Oct 08 19:42:12 <Clopy> joomla anyway. end Oct 08 19:42:17 <hyama> word Oct 08 19:42:47 <hyama> end Oct 08 19:42:52 <Zapata> let's ask when we review progress on individual surveys Oct 08 19:42:57 <Zapata> so... Oct 08 19:42:58 <Clopy> ok Oct 08 19:43:12 <Zapata> we all agree on the november deadline for the first phase reports? Oct 08 19:43:30 <ryan> yes Oct 08 19:43:33 <Zapata> good Oct 08 19:43:37 <txopi> it ok for me Oct 08 19:43:41 <txopi> it's ok for me Oct 08 19:43:43 <Zapata> let's move on the reports for the surveys Oct 08 19:44:09 <Zapata> what I want to do this time is simply iterate over them one by one and ask for what has been achieved Oct 08 19:44:43 * txopi raises Oct 08 19:44:47 <Zapata> and ask the person doing the review to give a brief statement on the progress so far Oct 08 19:44:50 <Zapata> txopi? Oct 08 19:45:32 <txopi> i think we can add a section in the bottom of the surveys explaining the pros and cons we have found discussin them in a meeting Oct 08 19:46:04 <Zapata> you mean a summary of the the pros and cons of a particular cms? Oct 08 19:46:07 <txopi> i think that reviews are not need because the survey should speak by it self Oct 08 19:46:08 <txopi> END. Oct 08 19:46:19 <txopi> yes. i mean that Oct 08 19:46:21 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:46:42 * ryan raises Oct 08 19:46:47 <Zapata> ryan! Oct 08 19:46:51 <ryan> yes well Oct 08 19:47:00 <ryan> i want to give my survey result :) and an update on my availability Oct 08 19:47:07 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:47:11 <Zapata> you're in a hurry ;-) Oct 08 19:47:15 <Zapata> sf-active / plone Oct 08 19:47:17 <Zapata> tell us Oct 08 19:47:30 <ryan> sf-active - sfimc is 90% migrated to the new sfactive cvs Oct 08 19:47:31 * txopi asks if we have moved to the next item of the agenda Oct 08 19:47:38 <ryan> i actually think there is a compelling argument for using PHP/PEAR for our development Oct 08 19:48:07 <ryan> or for at least examining this further Oct 08 19:48:25 <ryan> anyway, i am going out of the country for a week tomorrow Oct 08 19:48:40 * txopi agrees a lot about PEAR Oct 08 19:48:57 <ryan> so i wont be at next week's meeting and i wont have any progress until at least the meeting on sunday the 22nd Oct 08 19:49:11 <ryan> plone, no update Oct 08 19:49:12 <ryan> thats it Oct 08 19:49:13 <ryan> end Oct 08 19:49:14 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:49:17 * qwerty raises Oct 08 19:49:18 <Zapata> quick reaction on pear: Oct 08 19:49:37 <Zapata> I'm sure it would be great to use it, however it wouldn't solve all the issues there are, like the wider developer base... Oct 08 19:49:47 <Zapata> but that's just my opinion ;-) Oct 08 19:49:52 <Zapata> qwerty! Oct 08 19:49:55 <ryan> PEAR has an enormous developer base, including the entire paid staff of Yahoo's programmers Oct 08 19:50:02 <ryan> <- out of turn is ok in defense of php Oct 08 19:50:16 <Zapata> but sf-active on pear doesn't have this developer base! Oct 08 19:50:22 <ryan> of course it does Oct 08 19:50:33 <qwerty> we published a demo site using our CMS based on plone. It's not feature complete yet but it will be soon. Check it out at http://indy.gr Oct 08 19:50:40 <qwerty> end Oct 08 19:50:52 <Zapata> nice short domain name ;-) Oct 08 19:51:10 * txopi raises Oct 08 19:51:14 <Zapata> txopi Oct 08 19:51:30 <hyama> * digresses: can anyone give me an url to download the latest sf-active? end Oct 08 19:51:31 <txopi> i know this is quite off-topic, Oct 08 19:51:42 <txopi> but i wonder if you guys know seagull Oct 08 19:51:42 <txopi> http://seagull.phpkitchen.com/ Oct 08 19:51:49 <txopi> is a oop framework based on pear Oct 08 19:51:51 <ryan> hyama - http://sfa.indymedia.org/ Oct 08 19:51:58 <ryan> txopi: interesting Oct 08 19:52:02 <txopi> developing a cms with that should be easy Oct 08 19:52:04 <txopi> END. Oct 08 19:52:06 * kwadronaut raises in response to qwerty Oct 08 19:52:08 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:52:10 <Zapata> kwadro Oct 08 19:52:16 <ryan> wow, cool Oct 08 19:52:29 <kwadronaut> translations.indymedia.org is also build on zope/plone, just to give another example Oct 08 19:52:32 <kwadronaut> end Oct 08 19:52:35 <ryan> BSD license :D Oct 08 19:52:40 * qwerty IndyPlone svn repository: http://svn.indy.gr/ (check out the IndyPlone-bundle) Oct 08 19:52:45 * Zapata remarks that php still sucks no matter what toolkit is used :-p Oct 08 19:53:02 <ryan> php is the proletariat's language Oct 08 19:53:15 <ryan> of course those with pretentions will look down on it :P Oct 08 19:53:21 <Zapata> :-p Oct 08 19:53:36 <Zapata> ok Oct 08 19:53:44 <Zapata> let's move back to the surveys Oct 08 19:53:58 <Zapata> is boston around to say something about the drupal review? Oct 08 19:54:09 <hyama> we flash designers look down upon your lowly language wars since we design frontends to whatever sick db/framework architecture you have in mind Oct 08 19:54:13 <Zapata> angdraug / boud on samizdat ? Oct 08 19:54:22 <Zapata> devin on bricolage ? Oct 08 19:54:26 <txopi> zapata, java developers say that php sucks but is more and more Oct 08 19:54:27 <txopi> wait Oct 08 19:54:31 <txopi> wop Oct 08 19:54:39 <txopi> delete that line :-) Oct 08 19:54:47 <Zapata> A-Kaser, Alster on typo3 Oct 08 19:54:54 <txopi> i want to talk about surveys Oct 08 19:54:57 * txopi raises Oct 08 19:55:06 <Zapata> go ahead, txopi Oct 08 19:55:17 * ryan loves sundays now! Oct 08 19:55:38 <txopi> i would like if people respect turns because my english if poor and you speak very fast Oct 08 19:56:14 <txopi> first of all i want to speak about samizdat's survey Oct 08 19:56:29 <txopi> i think it is writen too positively Oct 08 19:56:47 <txopi> i propose that the author reread it Oct 08 19:56:48 * ryan queue Oct 08 19:57:11 <txopi> to positive and to short too Oct 08 19:57:23 <txopi> remarks like just "yes" Oct 08 19:57:34 <txopi> are not enought Oct 08 19:57:45 <txopi> END with samizdat Oct 08 19:57:57 <txopi> anyone whants to answer this? Oct 08 19:58:00 <Zapata> yeah Oct 08 19:58:10 <Zapata> I have made the same remarks in an earlier meeting Oct 08 19:58:13 <txopi> ok. i will continue later iwth the other reviews Oct 08 19:58:38 <Zapata> but since the people writing the reviews aren't here, it's a bit hard to discuss it now... Oct 08 19:58:43 * boud raises Oct 08 19:58:48 <Zapata> boud, go ahead... Oct 08 19:58:52 <ryan> YO Oct 08 19:58:55 <Zapata> erm Oct 08 19:58:57 <Zapata> sorry Oct 08 19:58:58 <Zapata> ryan first Oct 08 19:59:00 <ryan> its ok Oct 08 19:59:08 * boud who first Oct 08 19:59:09 <ryan> i want to discuss multilingual meetings Oct 08 19:59:09 <boud> ? Oct 08 19:59:12 <ryan> boud - go Oct 08 19:59:28 * kwadronaut queues for next review reporting (spip) Oct 08 19:59:52 <boud> just to say that i agree with adding more detail than just yes - we'll work on that
